1  Return-Path: <thomas@thomaszander.se>
 2  Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
 3  	[172.17.192.35])
 4  	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 042CA4D3
 5  	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 6  	Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:16:16 +0000 (UTC)
 7  X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
 8  Received: from manxnetsf05.manx.net (outbound.manx.net [213.137.31.12])
 9  	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E0D9180
10  	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
11  	Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:16:15 +0000 (UTC)
12  Received: from adsl92.39.203.140.manx.net (EHLO coldstorage.localnet)
13  	([92.39.203.140])
14  	by manxnetsf05.manx.net (MOS 4.4.5a-GA FastPath queued)
15  	with ESMTP id EGD47095; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:16:12 +0100 (BST)
16  From: Thomas Zander <thomas@thomaszander.se>
17  To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
18  Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 23:16:11 +0200
19  Message-ID: <1531960.ajae0oEZC4@coldstorage>
20  User-Agent: KMail/4.14.1 (Linux/3.16.0-4-amd64; KDE/4.14.2; x86_64; ; )
21  In-Reply-To: <55C8C8FD.9040600@LeoWandersleb.de>
22  References: <55C7D234.1040306@bitmarkets.net> <7458113.kgSzuHbtZH@coldstorage>
23  	<55C8C8FD.9040600@LeoWandersleb.de>
24  MIME-Version: 1.0
25  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
26  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
27  X-Mirapoint-Received-SPF: 92.39.203.140 coldstorage.localnet
28  	thomas@thomaszander.se 5 none
29  X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=manxnetsf05.manx.net
30  X-Junkmail-Signature-Raw: score=unknown,
31  	refid=str=0001.0A0B0205.55C9149D.0058, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000,
32  	reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0,
33  	so=2014-07-29 09:23:55, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32,
34  	mode=multiengine
35  X-Junkmail-IWF: false
36  X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0),
37  	refid=str=0001.0A0B0205.55C9149D.0058, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000,
38  	reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0,
39  	so=2014-07-29 09:23:55, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32
40  X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 2b996838885ff9029f9197e8f3cdbd0b
41  X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
42  	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
43  X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
44  	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
45  Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Off-chain transactions and miner fees
46  X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
47  X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
48  Precedence: list
49  List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
50  List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
51  	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
52  List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
53  List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
54  List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
55  List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
56  	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
57  X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:16:16 -0000
58  
59  On Monday 10. August 2015 12.53.33 Leo Wandersleb via bitcoin-dev wrote:
60  > > The reason of it being faster makes no sense, as your example the channel
61  > > has  been open for a month then he really doesn't care it takes 1, 10 or
62  > > 50 blocks before his transaction is included.  What is 5 hours wait on a
63  > > month of profit?
64  >
65  > I guess the assumption here is a full-block scenario where users of LN would
66  > be willing to pay 100 times the fees users of crude transactions would be
67  > willing to pay for the same limited space in the blockchain, simply because
68  > LN would group 100 real world payments into 1 crude transaction.
69  
70  Thats exactly what I argued makes no sense to me.
71  
72  Why pay for something you don't need? Paying something Just because you have 
73  money is really not a good business strategy. I doubt that will happen.
74  
75  -- 
76  Thomas Zander
77