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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) 120 by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 71dfb90a1353d-530e63a9699si371125e0c.3.2025.06.09.07.43.37 121 for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> 122 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); 123 Mon, 09 Jun 2025 07:43:37 -0700 (PDT) 124 Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of james.obeirne@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::631 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::631; 125 Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-234d3261631so30338935ad.1 126 for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 07:43:37 -0700 (PDT) 127 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv9Uffro6qH3CoAhoX9Yj+nbKe98bhkClxxD8PRHobn2ytCjehAvEc/ZiimNIf 128 XwafYE+xRSq5hqcHuzRVnU8gdWR0XBFgW6pvtE0RP5QOPZ9d2u6A9haszDRoWicV9VnZtC/MUa3 129 ganjcLLlk6uUzLSeDcGpRVqBsyBBwz/nw= 130 X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:986:b0:235:e1e4:ec5e with SMTP id 131 d9443c01a7336-23601debdb1mr197433345ad.49.1749480216701; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 132 07:43:36 -0700 (PDT) 133 MIME-Version: 1.0 134 References: <a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n@googlegroups.com> <6f78b702-4bd0-4aa4-ac51-b881d8df9f01@mattcorallo.com> 135 In-Reply-To: <6f78b702-4bd0-4aa4-ac51-b881d8df9f01@mattcorallo.com> 136 From: "James O'Beirne" <james.obeirne@gmail.com> 137 Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2025 10:43:25 -0400 138 X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFujEKF-XJVusbZ9Lg5ekwEAn_10eh-CmXI9RH9HAqFd985qSpXJ4BlXcpY 139 Message-ID: <CAPfvXf+t33u1ghz39cqYn4k5ErmxTkUv0njF9Zwbz_2UkdTjAg@mail.gmail.com> 140 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter 141 To: Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo.com> 142 Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> 143 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dbb0fa0637249a8a" 144 X-Original-Sender: james.obeirne@gmail.com 145 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass 146 header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=gHZS3+yU; spf=pass 147 (google.com: domain of james.obeirne@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::631 148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=james.obeirne@gmail.com; dmarc=pass 149 (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com 150 Precedence: list 151 Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com 152 List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com> 153 X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 154 List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> 155 List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com> 156 List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev 157 List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com> 158 List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>, 159 <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe> 160 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) 161 162 --000000000000dbb0fa0637249a8a 163 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 164 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 165 166 On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 9:51=E2=80=AFAM Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo.c= 167 om> 168 wrote: 169 > That said, I have yet to see a reasoned explanation of why we should 170 prefer CTV over TXHASH. 171 172 From the author of TXHASH himself on Delving Bitcoin 173 ( 174 https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/ctv-csfs-can-we-reach-consensus-on-a-first-ste= 175 p-towards-covenants/1509/15 176 ): 177 178 > Having implemented TXHASH, I would definitely not say that 179 > it =E2=80=9Csimplifies the change=E2=80=9D. The difference in both techni= 180 cal debt and 181 > potential for bugs is an order of magnitude bigger for TXHASH than for 182 > CTV. (Not to say that I don=E2=80=99t think TXHASH would be worthwhile, b= 183 ut I 184 > will definitely say that it has not received the attention I had 185 expected, 186 > so I would definitely not want to put it on the table anytime soon.) 187 188 The use-cases that might merit such a jump up in complexity over CTV 189 have not been enumerated to my knowledge. CTV also includes 190 upgrade hooks to incorporate modifications should these additional 191 uses be more fully understood. 192 193 Best, 194 James 195 196 --=20 197 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= 198 Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 199 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= 200 mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 201 To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 202 CAPfvXf%2Bt33u1ghz39cqYn4k5ErmxTkUv0njF9Zwbz_2UkdTjAg%40mail.gmail.com. 203 204 --000000000000dbb0fa0637249a8a 205 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" 206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 207 208 <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 9:51=E2=80=AFAM Ma= 209 tt Corallo <<a href=3D"mailto:lf-lists@mattcorallo.com">lf-lists@mattcor= 210 allo.com</a>> wrote:</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_containe= 211 r"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">> That said, I have yet to see = 212 a reasoned explanation of why we should prefer CTV over TXHASH.=C2=A0</div>= 213 <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">F= 214 rom the author of TXHASH himself on Delving Bitcoin</div><div class=3D"gmai= 215 l_attr">(<a href=3D"https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/ctv-csfs-can-we-reach-cons= 216 ensus-on-a-first-step-towards-covenants/1509/15">https://delvingbitcoin.org= 217 /t/ctv-csfs-can-we-reach-consensus-on-a-first-step-towards-covenants/1509/1= 218 5</a>):</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">= 219 >=C2=A0Having implemented TXHASH, I would definitely not say that=C2=A0<= 220 /div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">> it=20 221 =E2=80=9Csimplifies the change=E2=80=9D. The difference in both technical d= 222 ebt and=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">> potential for bugs is an = 223 order of magnitude bigger for TXHASH than for=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmai= 224 l_attr">> CTV. (Not to say that I don=E2=80=99t think TXHASH would be wo= 225 rthwhile, but I=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">> will definitely s= 226 ay that it has not received the attention I had=20 227 expected,=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">> so I would definitely n= 228 ot want to put it on the table anytime=20 229 soon.)</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">T= 230 he use-cases that might merit such a jump up in complexity over CTV</div><d= 231 iv class=3D"gmail_attr">have not been enumerated to my knowledge. CTV also = 232 includes=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">upgrade hooks to incorporate = 233 modifications should these additional</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">uses b= 234 e more fully understood.</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr"><br></div><div clas= 235 s=3D"gmail_attr">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_attr">James</div></div></di= 236 v> 237 238 <p></p> 239 240 -- <br /> 241 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= 242 quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br /> 243 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= 244 mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind= 245 ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br /> 246 To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= 247 bitcoindev/CAPfvXf%2Bt33u1ghz39cqYn4k5ErmxTkUv0njF9Zwbz_2UkdTjAg%40mail.gma= 248 il.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/= 249 msgid/bitcoindev/CAPfvXf%2Bt33u1ghz39cqYn4k5ErmxTkUv0njF9Zwbz_2UkdTjAg%40ma= 250 il.gmail.com</a>.<br /> 251 252 --000000000000dbb0fa0637249a8a-- 253